Image source, Getty ImagesJohn Swinney, Rhun ap Iorwerth, Mary Lou McDonald and Michelle O’Neill met in Cardiff Bay on Monday
ByDavid Deans, Wales political reporter and Cemlyn Davies, Wales political correspondent
The first ministers of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland have declared that “Westminster’s time is coming to an end”, and that the UK government should “prepare” for constitutional change.
The nationalist leaders from Plaid Cymru, Sinn Féin and the SNP – who want their countries to leave the United Kingdom – signed an agreement on Monday which said no Westminster government had the right to “block democracy”.
But while Scotland’s John Swinney and Northern Ireland’s Michelle O’Neill called for referendums at a joint press conference, Wales’ Rhun ap Iorwerth refused to give a timetable for one in his country.
Sinn Féin president Mary Lou McDonald also attended.
Ap Iorwerth will hold further talks with Swinney in the afternoon in their roles as government leaders, with both men expected to sign an agreement on “future collaboration in areas of shared interest”.
For the first time since devolution began, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland all have first ministers who want to leave the United Kingdom.
All three met on Monday as representatives of their parties.
The memorandum of understanding said: “For people watching across these islands – for people watching around the world – there could be no clearer sign that Westminster’s time is coming to an end.
“No Westminster government has the right to block democracy or undermine the principle that our people will decide their own future.
“We recognise that our parties have different constitutional positions and that each nation will determine its own future in its own way and in its own time.”
A Plaid spokesperson said ahead of the meeting that the “changing political landscape across these islands” meant there was a strong case for “practical political co-operation” on areas like energy, the economy and working with Europe.
They said that also had included “the wider political and constitutional questions facing our nations and on the right to self-determination”.
Ap Iorwerth said May’s Welsh election had been “a turning point for Wales”, and that there was “a growing recognition that the Westminster model is no longer working”.
Plaid previously ruled out an independence referendum before the next Senedd election in 2030.
SNP leader Swinney told Radio Wales Breakfast on Monday morning it was a “significant and pivotal moment for the United Kingdom”, and that things had “changed forever”.
“The people of Scotland, Wales and Ireland have a right to self-determination,” he said. “They are entitled to decide on their own future.”
“Fundamentally what our discussions today are about recognising the significance of the moment we are in.”
Sinn Féin vice-president O’Neill said the best interests of people across the island of Ireland “have never been served by those in Westminster”.
“However, change is happening right across these islands and we must be ready for constitutional change when it comes,” she said.
“The election of three nationalist first ministers for the first time on these islands is a clear indication that people see that Westminster is not working for the people of the North, Scotland or Wales.”
Image source, Getty ImagesThe leaders signed an agreement which said each nation will determine its own future “in its own way and in its own time”
Mary Lou McDonald, president of Sinn Féin, told BBC Wales the trajectory for Wales, Scotland and Ireland to self-determination was different, describing the current climate as “history-making times”.
“Obviously we have different national stories, but we have one very critical thing in common and that is our absolute insistence that it is for the people of Ireland to decide the future of Ireland, for the people of Scotland to decide the future of Scotland and for the people if Wales to decide the future of Wales,” she said.
The meetings come days after the matter of Scottish independence resurfaced in the Commons.
During Prime Minister’s Questions on Wednesday, Andy Burnham appeared to indicate a second referendum could be held in Scotland if there was clear public support for a vote.
He compared the situation to the conditions for a border poll in Northern Ireland, explaining the Good Friday Agreement made clear a poll would be “considered by the Northern Ireland secretary when there is a clear consensus in the country, when public opinion has changed to the point where the call has to be considered”.
“I would say that it is exactly the same situation in Scotland,” he added.
The apparent softening in tone was welcomed by Swinney before Burnham clarified that another Scottish referendum remained “off limits”.
A referendum on Scottish independence in September 2014 saw the country vote to remain part of the UK by a margin of 55% to 45%.
Image source, EPAAndy Burnham will meet the devolved leaders next month
But the dynamics in Wales are different from those in Scotland.
Ap Iorwerth, who was appointed the first non-Labour first minister of Wales after May’s Senedd election, has ruled out pushing for a referendum on Welsh independence during his party’s first term in government, saying he wanted to lead a “national conversation” about the issue.
His government intends to set up a national commission to “lay the foundations” for future plans for Welsh independence.
In the meantime, Welsh ministers are seeking extra powers to be transferred to Wales, including over policing and youth justice.
Burnham has said he is “open” to the idea.
In Northern Ireland, the first and deputy first minister have identical powers and responsibilities and the Democratic Unionist Party’s (DUP) Emma Little-Pengelly is the deputy first minister.
Little-Pengelly criticised O’Neill for attending Monday’s talks.
The talks are likely to cover the way the devolved nations are funded by the UK government.
Welsh ministers have long called for the Barnett funding formula to be reformed, claiming it disadvantages Wales.
However, it is argued Scotland does well from the formula.
Before he became prime minister, Burnham made the case for change, but on his recent visit to Wales he played down the prospect of reform.
The devolved leaders will meet the prime minister next month.
The UK government said: “The prime minister is committed to delivering change across all four nations of the United Kingdom and believes strongly in the union.”
Welsh Conservatives leader Darren Millar said: “Instead of obsessing about independence, the first minister should be focused on dealing with the crisis engulfing the Welsh NHS and the declining standards in Welsh schools.”
Reform UK Wales said: “Plaid Cymru is showing its true colours by meeting with Sinn Féin and the Scottish separatists.”
